tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post8447016546523107613..comments2024-01-10T17:36:15.040-07:00Comments on The Lippard Blog: Atheism and the difference between consistency and entailmentLippardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16826768452963498005noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post-15969510878077259252008-07-07T08:03:00.000-07:002008-07-07T08:03:00.000-07:00I also found the hand-waiving at Euthyphro's dilem...I also found the hand-waiving at Euthyphro's dilemma to be feeble and the objection that it was directed at the Greek gods trivial.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post-1507011222263674512008-07-05T21:07:00.000-07:002008-07-05T21:07:00.000-07:00I meant that in the sense that a disbelief in an a...I meant that in the sense that a disbelief in an absolute moral rule-maker means no moral absolutes ... I'm not sure that I could make a logical argument deriving no moral absolutes from atheism itselfHume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post-35605225428687680312008-07-05T20:59:00.000-07:002008-07-05T20:59:00.000-07:00I just read the article. The citation only backs u...I just read the article. The citation only backs up the statement by the psychiatrist, but not the bit about a fundamentalist upbringing.<BR/><BR/>I did find <A HREF="http://www.adherents.com/people/pd/Jeffrey_Dahmer.html" REL="nofollow">this</A>, however, which is consistent with the book's assertion.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post-21117239426373775082008-07-05T20:54:00.000-07:002008-07-05T20:54:00.000-07:00Hume's Ghost: Thanks for the quotation and the fu...Hume's Ghost: Thanks for the quotation and the further info about Dahmer.<BR/><BR/>I don't agree that atheism entails the impossibility of moral absolutes (or objectivity). Absolutism just says that there is at least one exceptionless moral principle. Why would the existence of gods make a difference to whether that is a possibility?Lippardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16826768452963498005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post-5850954142856483002008-07-05T20:49:00.000-07:002008-07-05T20:49:00.000-07:00I would also observe that the quote from Dahmer ab...I would also observe that the quote from Dahmer about evolution sounds like what someone who raised with fundamentalist influences would say about evolution.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post-71570451881387851872008-07-05T20:48:00.000-07:002008-07-05T20:48:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post-55474995446330114822008-07-05T20:46:00.000-07:002008-07-05T20:46:00.000-07:00It would seem to me that objective morality is bei...It would seem to me that objective morality is being confused with moral absolutes. I do believe that atheism entails no moral absolutes, but I do not believe it entails moral subjectivty. Indeed, as I commented over there, it would seem to me that Divine absolutism itself is a position that leads to moral subjectivy.<BR/><BR/>I went and looked up my copy of Fundamentals of Extremism.<BR/><BR/><B>The other side of the efforts to repress homosexuality is most dramatically illustrated by the case of Jeffrey Dahmer. The insistence that homosexuality is a disorder and a sin has taken a visible toll on society. Convicted serial murderer Dahmer suffered from severe self-hatred because of his own homosexuality. He was convinced by his fundamentalist upbringing that he was at heart a sinner and that his family would never accept him if they knew of this. Dahmer’s rage was catastrophically turned against seventeen men and boys. He murdered and then performed sex acts on them before mutilating their bodies. Psychiatrist George Palermo testified in Dahmer’s trial. He said to the Milwaukee Sentinel, “I believe Jeffrey Dahmer killed his victims because he hated homosexuality.”</B><BR/><BR/>The citation given is for:<BR/>David Doege, "Anger at homosexuality led Dahmer to kill, psychiatrist says." Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Feb. 7 1992Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post-17274140570378030732008-07-05T07:54:00.000-07:002008-07-05T07:54:00.000-07:00I read the whole exchange -- gods, that guy is obt...I read the whole exchange -- gods, that guy is obtuse. To me, it looks like he keeps confounding <B>psycho</B>logical "consistency" with logical necessity, while never realizing he's doing it. And then he links to AiG....and you sort of know it's hopeless.Eamon Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04262012749524758120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post-71457544883867190432008-07-05T01:09:00.000-07:002008-07-05T01:09:00.000-07:00I left a comment at the country shrink blog. Could...I left a comment at the country shrink blog. Couldn't resist.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post-61191312254173803922008-07-05T01:08:00.000-07:002008-07-05T01:08:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post-81856091071676411482008-07-04T11:49:00.000-07:002008-07-04T11:49:00.000-07:00Ah, I see in the Dahmer link that you've already t...Ah, I see in the Dahmer link that you've already tried to source the claim that Dahmer was raised fundamentalist.<BR/><BR/>My source for making the claim is The Fundamentals of Extremism, which I don't have with me at the moment. When I get home I'll check it to see how well the author sourced that claim.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post-20120365012280758782008-07-04T11:48:00.000-07:002008-07-04T11:48:00.000-07:00Hume's Ghost: Was Dahmer raised as a fundamentali...Hume's Ghost: Was Dahmer raised as a fundamentalist, or did his father, Lionel Dahmer, convert later? I was looking for evidence of that when I wrote the post that the psychologist cites for the quote, but couldn't find it. I was told that Lionel Dahmer, a chemist, converted to creationism after his son's arrest. He's listed as a scientist who supports creationism on Answers in Genesis's website.Lippardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16826768452963498005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15453937.post-33703887702749359432008-07-04T11:41:00.000-07:002008-07-04T11:41:00.000-07:00Jeffrey Dahmer is an interesting choice, consideri...Jeffrey Dahmer is an interesting choice, considering he was raised in a fundamentalist home. Him being a sociopath is another reason that he's a particularly poor choice, especially for a psychologist who would presumably have the training to understand why choosing a sociopath would not make the point he seeks to make.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.com